"Not All Manifestation Is Created Equal: Privilege, Equity & Real Change with Bryanna Clover"

In this episode, Kelly Noble and Bryanna Clover discuss the intersection of privilege and manifestation. They explore the concept of privilege and how it relates to societal structures and advantages. They emphasize the importance of recognizing privilege and using it to create awareness and dismantle oppressive systems. They also discuss the deeper meaning of manifestation, which goes beyond materialistic desires and focuses on embodying a sense of worthiness and creating positive change in the world. The conversation highlights the need for individuals to use their privilege to uplift others and work towards a more equitable society. In this conversation, they discuss the importance of equity in creating lasting change and dismantling systemic oppression. They explore the concept of performative marketing and the need for authentic inclusivity in the wellness industry. They emphasize the importance of self-reflection, recognizing privilege, and holding space for uncomfortable conversations. 

Chapters

00:00 Introduction and Background
04:47 Defining Privilege and Manifestation
10:03 The Relationship Between Worthiness and Manifestation
25:00 The Manipulation of Manifestation in Capitalistic Spaces
36:09 Manifesting a New World and Peaceful Human Experience
38:12 Achieving Lasting Change through Equity
44:44 Authentic Inclusivity in the Wellness Industry
48:47 Self-Reflection and Recognizing Privilege
52:08 Holding Space for Uncomfortable Conversations
58:09 Diversifying Sources of Information
01:05:40 Embracing the Messiness of Learning and Growth

The book recommended:https://bookshop.org/p/books/is-everyone-really-equal-an-introduction-to-key-concepts-in-social-justice-education-robin-diangelo/9154462?ean=9780807758618

A free download for race equity supplemental materials: https://www.bryanaclover.com/forms/2148598321

A link to learn more about my program.
https://www.bryanaclover.com/sales-page-1

Instagram Account Link
https://www.instagram.com/bryanaclover/

Transcript

Kellynoble.coaching she/her (00:02.138)
Welcome to the Manifest That Shifts podcast with your girl, Kelly Noble, the Quantum Coach. And today I am literally so excited. This has been in the works for like a couple months now. And I have Brianna Clover. She is a published co -author and race equity educator. She is a badass woman here.

Bryana Clover (00:19.15)
Yeah.

Kellynoble.coaching she/her (00:31.194)
to shake up an industry and bring more equity and love back into the world. And today we are going to have the conversation around, is it privilege or is it manifestation?

Bryana Clover (00:46.926)
We.

Kellynoble.coaching she/her (00:47.866)
So we're gonna dive in. I'm gonna go ahead and let Brianna introduce herself because honestly, I could never do it justice. She is just such an incredible powerhouse woman. So Brianna, go ahead and give a little intro, let everyone know who you are.

Bryana Clover (00:59.022)
Yeah, thank you. I'm so honored to be here, Kelly. Thank you for creating space to have this conversation. I really hope that like years from now, it's not such a taboo or unusual dialogue to have. And we're here right now, like changing it up, shaking it up. So thank you for that. Brianna Clover, I go by Bri, like the cheese. And I'm originally from Michigan and I actually, my husband and son and I just moved back to...

Michigan, which is where my family lives. And I spent the first over 13 years of my career in corporate marketing and sales roles in the agriculture industry, which has a whole other story to it. But in, I'm weird with dates, but it was some time around May of 2020 in the midst of the pandemic. I, and this,

This feeling and desire that I was not in the right place, I just didn't know where that place was, had been around for many years, but I finally quit my corporate job, kind of threw myself into, I'm gonna try this entrepreneurship thing, I'm gonna start working with organizations to really help support them in showing up authentically in the work of racial justice. And through that experience, I have learned a lot.

and fast forward to now. And I just did my second launch of a new program that's really focused on individuals. And back in Michigan opened up a storefront, a metaphysical spiritual wellness store and wellness center, really centering women, particularly women of color, practitioners, spiritual practitioners, really to support their clients, but also for the spiritually curious, those who have

experienced harm in spiritual spaces who are looking for community, a space where it's safe and brave to explore the wonders of the world and like our soul's journey and the meaning of life together in a way that honors Indigenous wisdom and roots. So a lot has happened the past few years and yeah, I'm happy to be here and I'm happy to share what I think is such an important topic. And this is like my first time on

Bryana Clover (03:20.814)
platform sharing this. So thank you again for making it happen.

Kellynoble.coaching she/her (03:25.562)
my gosh, I did not know that. So a little like backstory, me and Bri met via Instagram and literally as soon as we got on the phone with each other and started talking, it was like, you, me, same, same equity.

Bryana Clover (03:27.918)
Yeah.

Bryana Clover (03:44.27)
Yeah, yeah, it really was. And I remember because I was, so my son is five, but I still do bedtime. And I was laying in bed until he fell asleep. And I came across your profile. It was actually shared by somebody else that I was following. I'm like, wait a minute. Like I literally had just had the conversation with my husband and with spirit saying, please bring me my people. Please bring me people who are in the spiritual space, in the entrepreneurship space, who are speaking bravely about equity.

And literally like that same week is when I came across your profile and then saw that you were recruiting for the Quantum CEO and was like, I'm just going to apply and see what happens. What do I have to lose? And yeah, the rest is history.

Kellynoble.coaching she/her (04:27.546)
And it was literally, yeah, love at first sight. And on top of that, I wanna like add this too. Not only are we so passionate about creating equity in the world, and that is like such a huge motivator for our purpose and why we're here, but on top of that, it's like, you like bougie things? I like bougie things. we can have a talk.

Bryana Clover (04:30.83)
Yeah.

Bryana Clover (04:47.79)
Yeah. It's so true. And you're really helping with that because there sometimes it is a struggle, right? When you work in the space of equity and justice. Being able to hold that and a desire for luxury, a desire for abundance in all the ways, you know, and hopefully we'll get into that a little bit. But yes, like sisters, maybe soul family, probably soul family.

So yeah, thank you, Spirit, for that one.

Kellynoble.coaching she/her (05:20.922)
Yeah, absolutely. And so I'm so honored and privileged that this is kind of like the first time. So let's talk about it. So when I say, is it manifestation or is it privilege? What is the first thing that goes through your mind?

Bryana Clover (05:28.622)
Okay.

Bryana Clover (05:37.806)
When you first, like when we first met, I think you mentioned like, I think I need you on the podcast and I have this podcast idea. Is it manifestation or is it privilege? And I was like, are you kidding me? Because that is the conversation that I wanna be having. So it's really cool how it all came together. And honestly, I don't know if now's a good time, Kelly, but I'd really love to share my understanding of what privilege means, particularly in the context of our...

societies dynamics and in the context really of race, which is kind of the focus. Is that okay? Like should we go there now? Okay. Yeah. Okay. Yes. Let's just dive in. So I'm going to use white privilege in this instance. And this is one of the first things that I share in my workshops with clients because the lay usage.

Kellynoble.coaching she/her (06:15.962)
Yeah, absolutely, let's dive in. Let's get into the juicy new world right now.

Bryana Clover (06:34.126)
of privilege means to be lucky or to have fortunate opportunity. So a lot of resistance to this white privilege are those who are of European descent or identify as white, who are like, I didn't grow up. I was not lucky. I was not fortunate. And there's like an immediate dismissal of having any sort of privilege. But when I'm using the word privilege, what I mean is how society works. I mean like how...

referring to the rights and the advantages and protections that one group of people have beyond the rights and advantages of another group. And we have all come into this lifetime not having anything to do with creating that privilege, but we very much benefit or are disadvantaged by it. And so because across all kinds of isms, if you will, dominant groups,

And those are the ones who hold positions of power and they're members. So those who belong to those dominant groups, and I'll give the example. So in race, it's white and we know that race is a social construct. And we could probably go deep into that if we need to. But those who are members of that particular group or hierarchy experience institutional advantages. And so privilege, and I think this was, I first heard that described in this way,

from Is Everyone Really Equal? It's a book by Aslam Sensoy and Raman D 'Angelo, but they describe it as a powerful current propelling you forward throughout your life. And since white people in an American context, and I would argue in many parts of the world, hold most of the political, institutional, and economic power, they receive advantages that non -white groups do not. And these benefits and advantages of varying degrees are what I would describe as white.

privilege. So when, and sorry, that was a long explanation, but when you brought up that thought of, is it privilege or is it manifestation? I think what's missing in the spiritual spaces where we are discussing the laws of the universe and the principles of manifestation, we are leaving out a societal 3D reality.

Bryana Clover (09:00.495)
that.

there is access to what one might call something they manifested. There's easier access to that, to those who have power in a society that was created to be hierarchal by race, by class, by religious status. So I think it's something...

that I don't want people to hold guilt or shame about, but I want people to be able to name that so that when we arrive to places of privilege and abundance, that we recognize that and we use that position to create an awareness and to dismantle the structures that are in place to keep some

away from experiencing the fullness of what their soul came here to experience. And yeah, I think I'll stop there. And I'm just curious, like, does that resonate? And was that clear? Yeah.

Kellynoble.coaching she/her (10:16.474)
Yeah, for me, of course, yes, because I'm so well versed in this space. But it's such an important conversation, especially when we think about equity, where privilege is, I was just having this conversation, you've seen, have you seen the photos where it's like, this is like equity. And, you know, so think about things being equal, trying to create equality, we see,

Bryana Clover (10:38.126)
Yes.

Kellynoble.coaching she/her (10:44.922)
we see a row of people all different heights and there's a seven foot fence. And creating an equal world means everyone gets the same size box. But if everyone is at different heights, they still might not be able to see over the fence because they already have, I don't want to say disadvantages, but yeah, I'm still here.

Bryana Clover (10:50.478)
me.

Bryana Clover (11:04.206)
Are you still there? I think you froze.

Sorry, I didn't mean to interrupt you, but I think you, like, I didn't hear a section of that. I heard the boxes. Everyone gets the same height of box.

Kellynoble.coaching she/her (11:15.674)
Yep, everyone gets the same height of boxes, but if they're all different heights, then they still can't maybe see over the fence. And so when we think about equity, we want to be able to give people different heights of boxes so they can all see over the fence. And I've had a lot of conversations with white people around privilege because there is a lot of like shame around privilege, right? When we talk about white people,

Bryana Clover (11:43.47)
Yeah.

Kellynoble.coaching she/her (11:44.858)
Like, I feel guilty. I feel shameful. Like, I don't want that. It's a bad thing. And yes, to some degree, it can be a bad thing. I fully acknowledge and recognize it is a tool that is used to suppress us, to control us. And if we allow it to continue to do that, okay. But instead, I would rather reframe it into your privilege is a gift. Your privilege is a superpower.

So how do you take your privilege, whether you're white, whether it's ableism or any of the other privileges, because everybody has privileges, how do we take that ladder of privilege and knock it over and turn it into a bridge and use that superpower to help others? But we first have to recognize that everyone is starting at different spaces, different areas, different advantages, different disadvantages.

Bryana Clover (12:19.63)
Mm -hmm.

Bryana Clover (12:28.622)
Yes.

Kellynoble.coaching she/her (12:40.826)
And we have to acknowledge that what I say to somebody or what I do to somebody or what I'm manifesting or what I'm teaching and what I'm preaching, I have to acknowledge that there are certain privileges that allow that to be easier.

Bryana Clover (12:54.158)
Yes, and I think you're exactly right. And I also want to just hone in really quickly on something because I think it's also important for us to recognize that the privileges that we have in society have nothing to do with our worthiness, have nothing to do with what we did, have nothing to do with, have nothing to do with us, honestly.

And so I think that's important for two reasons. Like you could see it from both ways, right? Like on one hand, it's important for us to understand that worthiness in and of itself as a social construct. Like we are all born worthy and there's nothing we can and can't do to change that. We are all born worthy. And so it can be really harmful if we believe that we something we have the power to.

create our privilege because that's as if like, so then if you don't have privilege, then there's something wrong with you. No, no, no, no, no, no. On the other hand, I think it's used on the opposite end. For instance, this myth of meritocracy, which is an ideology in the United States, which is this understanding. Like if you've heard, you know, my parents pulled themselves up by their bootstraps to be successful. So it's this thought that,

you, if you work hard enough, then you will be successful. Like you will be successful. And if you are not successful, it means you were lazy or you didn't work hard enough. So I think that it's important for us to understand that privilege really has nothing to do with what we do. It has everything to do with the context of which we live our lives in the context of which we work, play, worship, whatever that is. And so when we're, when you're saying,

How might those with privilege then leverage that to create the world we wish to see? It's almost a responsibility, right? But it's not something that...

Bryana Clover (15:10.062)
gives us more worthiness or not. Does that make sense? Like, I just, I feel like we have to be very careful when we're talking about privilege because we can very easily make the mistake of tying our worthiness to our privilege. And that's not the purpose of our conversation today.

Kellynoble.coaching she/her (15:30.554)
I love that you said that and mentioned that. And I feel like it really, I'm so happy you said that because it's 100 % true. And I think it goes back to, you know, if I'm using my own story, if just the journey of coming back to loving myself and understand, there's so many things that I used to numb with and I used to try and find external validation in and.

when you think about privilege, it's like, they have so much more and they're so lucky because they had, you know, parents that loved them and took care of them. And you get into this space of that worthiness. And it really does go back to like the truth of what I believe is true, at least for every human is you are worthy no matter what, because you exist and only because you exist, you are worthy. It's not because you did something or have something or need to change or.

Bryana Clover (16:17.134)
Yes.

Kellynoble.coaching she/her (16:25.818)
fix or heal or whatever the conversation may be, you exactly the way that you are in this present moment is worthy, period. End of sentence. End of story. So, so happy you said that, absolutely.

Bryana Clover (16:35.79)
Yes, end of story. Absolutely.

Bryana Clover (16:41.518)
Yeah, thank you. It's hard from a recovering perfectionist myself, and we could go down that rabbit hole of perfectionism is a characteristic of white supremacy culture and still coming from someone who works through feelings of unworthiness. I'm just so passionate about naming that.

Because if we don't fully internalize that truth, we can cause a lot of harm to ourselves and honestly to others. So thank you. Yeah.

Kellynoble.coaching she/her (17:09.946)
Yeah, I agree 100%. There's, you know, when we, when I think about manifestation, this, this fad or this like trendy, cool term that people are now using it as, as like, I manifested my business, I manifested all this money manifested. And yes, we're constantly manifesting all the time, whether you're conscious of it or not, constantly manifesting.

Bryana Clover (17:28.75)
Yeah.

Bryana Clover (17:34.446)
Right.

Kellynoble.coaching she/her (17:37.242)
But we see so much now in like a cultural space that it becomes this thing of like, I'm manifesting and I'm getting something that I want and it's something great and it's something beautiful and incredible. But if we really think about how long manifestation has truly been around, it wasn't to get a million dollars so you could go buy a Ferrari.

Bryana Clover (17:58.446)
It wasn't?

Kellynoble.coaching she/her (18:02.394)
I mean, it's great that that's something that can be my product now, sure.

Bryana Clover (18:05.998)
Preach, sister, preach.

Kellynoble.coaching she/her (18:09.946)
The true beauty of manifestation is not to necessarily get something materialistic. It truly is about this embodiment of how you feel and how you see the world and how you operate through the world. And as a result of that, certain things can come into your life. And worthiness is such a big piece to that because if we don't feel worthy of receiving,

Bryana Clover (18:24.686)
Yes.

Kellynoble.coaching she/her (18:37.018)
we're not going to be able to manifest quote unquote, this beautiful life that we want. If we don't believe that we're worthy of love, if we don't believe that we're worthy of being seen, if we don't believe at such a foundational level our worth, the girl that you see on TikTok manifesting a boat ride and yacht with her hundred thousand dollar cash mums, privilege has to be a conversation within that because she may have had privileges.

beforehand to be able to get to that place as quickly as she did or whatever it is you see.

Bryana Clover (19:09.166)
Right.

Bryana Clover (19:13.23)
Yeah, no, you're absolutely right. I have so much to say about this too. And two things come to mind, which I think bear with me converge together. But it reminds me of this quote that I heard from Juliette Aboto. I think I learned, I met her, she didn't meet me, but I met her as she was teaching something I was a part of through Catherine's and Kina's work. And she said, the greatest oppression is the greatest toxic trance is how...

she worded it. And she's exactly right. And I say that because I think it's important for us to understand that oppression was a human -made construct, but it is not the human condition. And even though race is literally not real, it has real consequences in our society. So again, it's being able to recognize

that it is a trance. And then the next question is, well, how the hell do I know if I'm under that trance or not? Right. And I think that that kind of gets to what I feel like a lot of tension when I'm having this conversation because.

If the people experiencing oppression knew their worthiness and knew their power as divine human beings, I totally believe that they would experience a life of full abundance and true love and worthiness. However, I do not believe that those who are oppressed have full ownership of

creating that reality because they are as much in this toxic trance as the ones who are benefiting from this toxic trance or from the ones who knowingly benefit. Where I would argue most of us don't knowingly know that we're benefiting from a privilege that we have. Like I'm not implying that all of, like most of humans are innately evil, not at all. So I think it's important.

Bryana Clover (21:27.662)
I wanted to name that at this point too, because I think it's like, some of us might struggle with like tangibly understanding what this is. And it's hard to hold two things, right? It's hard to hold this truth that we are, as you said, powerful manifestors as humans, whether we're manifesting what we desire or don't desire. And also we have to be very, very careful that we don't apply that principle understanding to...

imply that those who are experiencing depression, it's their own fault. And they have to do something to work their way out of it if they just change their mindset, if they just change, you know. And it brings me to another, which I'm not, I don't remember, but there was like a study done that says like, when you are having to spend so much of your energy surviving, literally like finding a place to sleep and eat.

Kellynoble.coaching she/her (21:58.49)
Mm.

Bryana Clover (22:23.118)
something to eat, you don't have the capacity to manifest because your energy is literally in, like your nervous system is literally in a heightened state of survival 24 seven. And if you don't mind, I think this is where the connection is because one woman who talks a lot about this is Simone Grace Soul. And,

It was when I was kind of like, it was just a couple of weeks ago. I think I sent this to you, Kelly, because it was a couple of weeks ago where I was like, like just having an existential crisis in my business and just like feeling so strongly that what I have to say is important, but just not sure I'm being heard or like not know where to to like rethinking all of the things. And then I came across Simone Grace's post and I actually wrote the quote down because I want to read it if you don't mind. She says, what if?

we manifested the end of state -funded genocide and the abolition of the prison industrial complex. Can we have some affirmations and crystals for that? And I just thought it was so freaking beautiful because it's exactly like I remember sending it to you Kelly, I mean like this, this is what I'm talking about. It's like for those of us who have privilege and are able to manifest our greatest desires, our desires are our divine birthright.

We have the ability to also manifest a new world. We have the ability to manifest truly a peaceful human experience. And we need to be talking about that just as much as we're talking about manifesting the cool cars, the beautiful houses, the luxury of vacations.

Kellynoble.coaching she/her (24:06.298)
Yes, my gosh, I'm so happy you're saying all of this. You're so spot on with absolutely everything you just said. And I think this is where, this is where I get some of the ick within like the manifestation holistic wellness space is exactly what you said is.

Bryana Clover (24:11.982)
Mm.

Kellynoble.coaching she/her (24:33.37)
As much as I want to manifest the beautiful home and the luxury and the ease in my life and all of that, and as much as I want to grow my business to a seven, eight plus figure business, it's so much deeper than just the superficial things. It is so I can actually create change in the world.

Bryana Clover (24:55.758)
Yes.

Bryana Clover (25:00.206)
Mm.

Kellynoble.coaching she/her (25:00.378)
I don't want money just to have money to be flashy, but sure, that's like a benefit, I guess. But it's so much deeper than that. We have to remember that when we see things on TikTok, when we see things on Instagram, when we literally see genocide happening in front of our eyes, and not just in like the Middle East, but like in Congo, like there's so many places in the world that this isn't happening. It's just not getting as big of a lens on it in this current moment.

Bryana Clover (25:22.318)
Mm -hmm.

Kellynoble.coaching she/her (25:28.73)
We have the power to manifest that change. We have the ability to say this, we don't like this, how do we change this? And it can come back to us. And that's what we should be manifesting. And I have seen it time and time and time again, through manifestation of people manifesting what they want and they're still unhappy.

Bryana Clover (25:36.782)
Hmm.

Bryana Clover (25:42.67)
Yeah.

Bryana Clover (25:55.15)
Yeah.

Kellynoble.coaching she/her (25:56.954)
And I think it's definitely rooted in this. You think that thing is going to help make you happy and fix the emptiness inside, and you still manifest things into your life.

Bryana Clover (26:06.478)
Yep.

Kellynoble.coaching she/her (26:12.09)
And then you get it and you're like, I actually don't feel happy. Like how many times have that happened? Like how many times has that happened in your life? Like I've done that, I got the car, I got the money, I got the house, I got all of these things, the perfect partner. And I'm still looking around me feeling so empty. Why is, and I truly believe as a collective consciousness, it's because that bigger mission is missing in our lives, that purpose, that vision, whatever we wanna call it.

Bryana Clover (26:29.934)
Yeah.

Kellynoble.coaching she/her (26:41.114)
Because we are all connected and when there's pain happening in the world, subconsciously we're feeling that. We are all connected.

Bryana Clover (26:47.31)
my gosh, yes. You said exactly what I was thinking in that exact moment when you said that question of why? Like, why are there instances where we can have all the things, material and alike, that we've manifested and still be unhappy? And it's so crazy to me because the principles of manifestation and human consciousness are based on the reality that we all come from source.

that we are all connected. And so we can believe that to be true and we hold onto those principles in the act of manifestation, in manifesting the things that we desire in our lives. Yet somehow we don't make the connection to the not so good feeling things that are happening in our world and why we might feel empty or why we might feel a disconnection.

And I've had this conversation with so many of, you know, my, my acquaintances in this spiritual entrepreneurial space. And it's like, I struggle, I struggle so much when I see so many mentors that I look up to in this space, sharing such profound and beautiful transformational wisdom, but yet are silent about.

the issues that are very so clearly going on around us. And I'm careful when I say that because I understand that social media only reflects a small part of one's life, you know, like in the sense that just because one is not sharing it on social media does not mean that they aren't doing other things. But I really dream of a world where

It is impossible for us not to name those things going on around no matter what, because it's just, yeah, it's impossible because what's happening in Congo, what's happening in Sudan, what's happening to our Palestinian brothers and sisters is happening to us and is a reflection of the parts of us that are unhealed.

Bryana Clover (29:06.862)
And I struggle with that. Like, I'm curious what you think about that too, Kelly, because I'm not, I don't want to be so quick of being judgmental of those who have millions of followers who aren't naming that publicly because I know it's, it's a portion of that. And also I wish it was more normalized.

Kellynoble.coaching she/her (29:26.302)
Yeah, I think yes, it's

It's interesting and I don't and I don't know necessarily why this happens in this space, but I think it's also we kind of touched about in the beginning. It's like, why is this such a taboo topic? And I think it's a collective mixture of so many different things. It's it's people with huge platforms that could create more change, especially in this space and the way that we see things the way that Simone does in such a beautiful way, which is also interesting, though, right, because she's a woman of color.

It goes back to why is this taboo to talk about? And people that are white, maybe they feel uncomfortable because there's not enough education. They don't know how to share it. They don't know what to do. There isn't one answer. I think there's so many things that happen within that conversation, but I'm like you. I can't wait to see the time where people in the industry are sharing.

Birkin bag and the million dollar month that they just had in their business and all of those wins just as equally as I just donated all of this money to this politician because he is for the people and he's not being funded because he doesn't align with Big Pharma and the gun industry and whatever else because I was even watching a TikTok video today with a creator that I like and

Bryana Clover (30:50.446)
Yes.

Kellynoble.coaching she/her (30:57.562)
She was talking about it openly. She was talking about the Met Gala and how people were like, it's insensitive. Like, why are we giving so much clout to all of these celebrities? Like, there's so many bigger issues. Like, why aren't you using your platform to talk about this instead? And she was like, you're absolutely right. I'm happy that my community is keeping me accountable. And it's also hard when you get to this place and it's your livelihood. And when you talk about things like this, you lose brand deals, you lose X, Y, and Z, and then your money is diminished and then...

So she's like, it's a very complex space to be in. And I'm not saying that's right. And we have to remember that as the individual people, as a collective whole, I think we often forget how much power we truly do have, especially as women who control most of the economy, because we are the ones that spend the most. We have to remember that what we consume pays whatever we're doing.

Bryana Clover (31:33.262)
Yeah.

Bryana Clover (31:43.246)
No.

Bryana Clover (31:51.822)
Yeah.

Kellynoble.coaching she/her (31:57.242)
that whatever we buy, if it's fast fashion, if it's whatever it is, the more that we engage in the things that we don't want, because we feel like we're just one person is contributing to a solution or putting more fuel on a fire that needs to be put out. So I think it's like a very, it's a very intricate conversation. But when you were speaking to, I almost think about like,

Bryana Clover (32:15.278)
Yeah.

Bryana Clover (32:20.622)
Yes.

Kellynoble.coaching she/her (32:24.282)
how manifestation now has almost been manipulated into a capitalistic tool and weaponized against us to feel bad about ourselves because we don't have what someone else can have, quote unquote. And it's just being used as a tool to consume more and like feel worse about ourselves.

Bryana Clover (32:34.19)
Yes.

Bryana Clover (32:48.526)
Yeah, it's so true. And I think yes, and I just want to yes to everything that you've said. It's like it is so complex. And also, it's like,

Bryana Clover (33:06.286)
When we have that feeling, and this is not a judgment because we all do, I have this too of I'm careful what I say and I'm fearful of certain things that I say. I don't, especially in cancel culture, there's a fear around that. And when it's wrapped in your livelihood and you have little ones dependent on you, it is so complicated. And also I feel like when we choose to be silent, because of that, we are only giving.

our power away and we are further perpetuating the very systems that are trying to keep us silent, that are trying to push us down. And so I feel like there is such a beautiful.

a beautiful, it's so beautiful to imagine this reality that we are all connected. And if indeed we are all connected, then what I do as, you know, Brie living in Lansing, Michigan right now, that can have a ripple effect on the rest of the world, like just think if so many of us felt that way, like if so many of us leaned into that bravery, right? And I use like a lot of my clients in the beginning of my entrepreneurial journey were,

pastors of churches. And it was this very similar thing, like within certain structures of certain denominations, the people, the what they call lay people or the people sitting in the pews have a lot of power over whether or not that pastor or minister keeps their job. And so,

I don't know how many times I had dialogue with pastors and ministers about like, of course I believe in, you know, racial justice and equity, but I'm going to lose my job if I get up and speak about it from the pulpit. And like, just so I guess what I'm trying to say is you're you're right. It's so complex and as.

Bryana Clover (35:11.694)
long as we continue operating within these very systems that were built to oppress and to suppress and to silence, we're going to see, we're going to feel like it's a hamster wheel. And honestly, that's why I feel so excited and passionate about calling, even in the name of my program, Libertory Embodiment, because...

I'm kind of trying to move away from this anti -racism language because it's like, okay, yeah, anti -racist. So I know what you're against, but what are we for? What are we creating? What is this new world? And we have to be thinking more about that because, and it's so crazy to me because like in this space, like Jim Fortin talking about, like, you can't op, I think he is where I got, like, you can't operate, you can't change.

You can't think or do outside of the box if you're operating from within side the box. Like we understand those principles of like, what got you here isn't gonna get you there. Like there's so many phrases like that, no matter what spiritual beliefs you have or universal beliefs you have, yet it feels so impossible for us as a collective to apply that to the work of advocacy and equity, you know, but.

But it's going to require that. It's going to require a new imagination.

Kellynoble.coaching she/her (36:43.642)
I I'm so happy you've said that as soon as you said that And we're talking about manifestation It's literally what you just said is the embodiment of manifestation Like like attracts like so if we're talking more about anti -racism the more energy is focusing on racism It's I can't remember. It was some manifestation book. I don't remember if it was a secret or whatever but this always stuck with me and

Bryana Clover (36:56.206)
Yes.

Kellynoble.coaching she/her (37:13.626)
They were talking about how one of the women, she would never go to an anti -war protest. She was like, if you set up a love protest, I'm there for it. But I'm not gonna continue to pour more energy into war. All of our energy should be focused into love. That is the solution. That is the cure. That is the medicine.

Bryana Clover (37:22.318)
Mmm.

Bryana Clover (37:37.006)
Yes.

Kellynoble.coaching she/her (37:40.89)
And so when you have that protest happening, let me know. That's the energy. Yeah, that's the energy I want to amplify. And that is the heart of manifestation. So I love that you're like, I want to move away from even anti -racism. So when we think about that, and this is why I love equity, because I feel like anti -racism, the cure to so many of the issues and struggles and problems and things that we...

Bryana Clover (37:45.454)
Call me up.

Kellynoble.coaching she/her (38:10.458)
our feeling as a collective whole, no matter if you're white, you're black, you're Asian, you're able -bodied, you're not, whatever it is, if we can create a more equitable world, that's how we can live in a more unified, loving, connected community.

Bryana Clover (38:12.526)
Mm -hmm.

Bryana Clover (38:30.766)
Yes. Yes.

Kellynoble.coaching she/her (38:32.698)
So the solution is equity, right?

Bryana Clover (38:36.11)
Yes, the solution is equity. And it's interesting because even like how I teach that, like, and you, you, you say to this beautifully describing the image, but it's like, equity is the means of achieving equality. But I think what the hangup is for so many people is that.

One doesn't necessarily understand the privileges that they have and they don't understand the systems in place that are creating the inequity in the first place. So I think it's honestly hard for people to wrap their mind around equity because I think they use, most of us in our minds use those terms interchangeably. And, you know, it's kind of like this colorblind mentality, which a lot of people who say I'm colorblind,

mean well when they say that. And it comes from that generation who've, you know, wanted to believe in a post -racial society. And so it's like, I don't see color, you know, my parents taught me to treat everybody equally. And that's great, beautiful for you. But racism is more than just an individual one -on -one experience, right? And so, yes, I agree, equity is the answer. And also, I think a lot of us struggle to wrap our mind around what exactly that means.

means and how to achieve it. And that's honestly what I'm so passionate about. And perhaps, perhaps I haven't, I just haven't found it yet. Perhaps I'm so deep into this work and so excited about it that I'm missing that others see it that way too. But my experience with people in the space of

how do I say, in the spiritual space. I don't think it's understood. And I don't know if now would be a good time to use an example of one of the charities that I experienced with a coach in the manifestation space. And I'm not, I don't, who it is doesn't matter because I actually have mad respect for them and I love their work.

Bryana Clover (40:49.358)
And also that was kind of when a light bulb came up or lit up in my mind. And it was an event that they invited a lot of their community to who signed up for an affiliate link through them. And so we all got together just to get to know each other and to, and she had a, I'm not sure what they named it, but it was some sort of charity where we,

made fleece blankets for the local shelter. And I'm not saying that fleece, like there's something wrong with fleece blankets for a shelter. Like people need blankets, people need to be warm. But I also think it's so important for us to understand the, what I call the fish in the groundwater metaphor. And I'm not the one who made it up. I learned from it first through the racial equity Institute, but it's essentially if you come across,

a lake and there's one dead fish, you might ask, well, what's wrong with that fish? I wonder what happened, you know? You know, wonder what happened to that fish. But if you go downstream and you see thousands of dead fish, your question probably isn't what's wrong with the one fish out of the thousands, but you're gonna start questioning the groundwater, right? Like there's something in, excuse me, there's something in the water. So.

The groundwater in this case is systemic oppression, systemic racism, and really getting to the root of the problem. The fish is creating these fleece blankets, it's food drives, it's feeding the unhoused. So that is important, but it is not going to change the groundwater. So,

dream of a world where these spiritually spiritual leaders, manifestation coaches, entrepreneurial coaches understand that concept. So rather than when they have dozens of their students in one place, rather than having their students make blankets for the local shelter, their

Bryana Clover (43:17.23)
giving their students a chance to lobby for change in their local communities so that there isn't a need for blankets, right? Like, so there isn't a need for more food drives because as long as we just focus on the fish, if we continue giving the food to the food drives and we continue giving, that is not going to create a new world. It is very much needed.

It is needed in our society and I don't want to downplay that. But I wanted to share that because I feel like this is why this conversation is so important right now. Because I don't quite know if there is that community who has the seven plus figure years understands the power they have to create real lasting change.

That is my wish, is that we get to that point. Does that make sense?

Kellynoble.coaching she/her (44:20.538)
I love that metaphor. It paints such a clear picture because it really is. So many of the things that we are doing are great and they really are more band -aid solutions. We're not actually fixing the problem at their root. So we're gonna continuously, it's almost like we're working harder instead of smarter.

Bryana Clover (44:33.422)
Yes.

Bryana Clover (44:44.238)
Mm -hmm. Yeah.

Kellynoble.coaching she/her (44:45.434)
And I'm not sure if some of these leaders do or don't necessarily know their power. Maybe, you know, everyone's reality is a perception of their own internal system. So their own internal systems, they may see that as like, I'm fixing, like I am creating a huge change. And so they aren't educated and well versed in that. So yeah, I would love to see.

Bryana Clover (45:07.534)
Yeah.

Kellynoble.coaching she/her (45:14.554)
these high influential, I want to say like influencer coaches within the space, especially since we are, I don't know, this might take us down another rabbit hole.

Bryana Clover (45:21.774)
Good morning.

Bryana Clover (45:28.91)
Bring it.

Kellynoble.coaching she/her (45:32.602)
I would love to think that people that are in this type of space where it's self -development, it's pouring into ourselves, it's healing, it's wanting better for the world, in my mind I really hope that that truly is, how do I say this?

Bryana Clover (45:57.358)
Just say it, girl.

Kellynoble.coaching she/her (45:58.618)
hahaha

Like that is the perfect world, right? Like we're all here to heal the collective. But I think there's such a big disconnect between what we are seeing truly though, because a lot of it is still ableism that we see in all of the spaces. It's a lot of the same looking women that traditionally are white. It's...

Bryana Clover (46:04.43)
Yeah.

Kellynoble.coaching she/her (46:26.874)
It's how are we truly healing and evolving and changing when every single coach is attracting and creating circles with the same exact type of people.

Bryana Clover (46:39.726)
Yes.

Kellynoble.coaching she/her (46:40.602)
So how are we actually getting to the root of any problem if no one is aware there's a problem because everyone else around you are similar? Sure, there's different problems and they have different experiences and different privileges, yes, but like...

you're not really learning. Like when I have like my Follow Your Magic retreat, one of the core conversations that we have within that space with my facilitators is how do we create this place to be inclusive? How do we get different groups of women in here? And we deeply pride ourselves of like, okay, last year we had a Black woman, we had a Latina woman, two of the women were living with an invisible disability.

Bryana Clover (47:13.262)
Yeah.

Kellynoble.coaching she/her (47:23.386)
Like this year we have a woman that is hearing impaired. It's like, how do we create more spaces with diverse women of all different walks of life so we can actually grow and change and evolve and move forward? And last year we had, I mean, of course I was like, I feel like this would not be authentic to me to not be able to use this space to have some sort of DEI.

So we did an exercise and it was such a big opening and it was actually one of all of the attendees favorite moments. And I had no idea that was going to happen, but they were like, I had no idea that you go through this. I had no idea that that's how you feel. How do we, how do we help? How do we, how do we actually create change? And then from that, I had women after the retreat, they were like, I went to a, I went to another retreat and I was like, I had conversations about this and I never knew that I needed to or how to, but like,

Bryana Clover (47:52.269)
Yeah.

Bryana Clover (48:03.118)
Mm -hmm.

Kellynoble.coaching she/her (48:20.026)
it empowered me to have more conversations around this. I feel like right now, one of the biggest things that are giving me the ick within this space is all of the performative marketing that's happening. Well, if I just find a picture of like a diverse group of women, like that's me attracting a diverse audience, but I'm still looking around and I don't know why everyone looks the same still, even though I wanna have a diverse audience. It's like.

Bryana Clover (48:33.358)
Mm -hmm.

Kellynoble.coaching she/her (48:47.418)
Well, how are you actually creating an inclusive space just because you found a picture of diverse women saying, hey, I want you to come in here. Where are you actually creating the space of women that don't look like you, that don't necessarily feel safe within those spaces because of historical things? How are you creating a nurturing space for them? Like that marketing is performative. It's not actually doing anything.

Bryana Clover (49:06.19)
Yeah.

Bryana Clover (49:11.566)
You're exactly right. And I'm so glad you went here because I think...

I think that is part of the problem. And that honestly, that was my motivation for creating the Cloverjoy Collective, my storefront and wellness center. Because when I was going through my own decolonization of my faith and my spirituality, I wanted to build something. So much of us go through that process and then we're left, we're just empty. But I really wanted to build something. But every spiritual space that I went in was white.

And so I wanted to create a space. My dream is to create a space where there is representation. And I think part of the issue is that, and this is why the key to, like, this is what my program is centered around of like the key to unlocking the transformative power within you is to know your own racial identity. And so many people of European descent,

or who are white passing, I will say, when they don't think about white as race. They think about race belonging to Black people, to AAPI, Asian American, Pacific Islander, to Indigenous. And so there's a large population out there that I don't necessarily think understands.

the ways in which their own racial identity impacts the way they show up. And to your point, if all you're attracting are the people who look like you, you don't ever get an opportunity to recognize that there's something wrong with that. It's just like me as an able -bodied person who lives in society that is built to accommodate the way I use my body. Most of the problems and challenges that,

Bryana Clover (51:20.846)
people who are not able -bodied experience, I will never be privy to because I don't have to. I would have to be intentional about that. And it's because I never have to think about that because society is accommodated to people who are able -bodied. So it's the same kind of thing. And I love that you named that performative because I honestly think that so many people actually think that they are doing good.

when they do those things. Like they think that that is their role. That is their way of being inclusive. And no, no, honey child, that's not how you be inclusive, but let's have a conversation about it.

Kellynoble.coaching she/her (52:08.09)
Yeah. So let's have a conversation about it, right? Let's, for the, for the people that are listening right now, some people are going to be like, yes, I know exactly what you're talking about. I'm here for it. Like I'm, I'm on, I'm on the mission with you. And then I know that there's a large audience also that's like, I'm on the mission too, but I don't know. Wait, hang on. I'm just now recognizing and realizing you're right. I guess, I guess conditioning and society and structures and everything else.

Bryana Clover (52:11.63)
Yeah.

Kellynoble.coaching she/her (52:36.634)
has blinded me from the fact that I do need to actually be aware and recognize and dive more into this work and take initiative myself. There's gonna be women that are like, that's me, I posted pictures and I wish my team was more diverse and I love everybody. I want to have that mix because I see the value, but I don't know how. Like it's just a mindset shift. It's a photo like.

Bryana Clover (52:59.758)
Yeah.

Kellynoble.coaching she/her (53:03.194)
So for those people that are in this like, wait, okay, I'm recognizing that something is off. What would you suggest for them to like help deepen the work to be able to be inclusive and recognize their privilege and really create these spaces so we can all go towards true collective. If every voice has to be heard, if we're healing as a collective.

Bryana Clover (53:22.958)
Hello.

Bryana Clover (53:28.846)
Yes. Okay. I love that you asked this question. And one of my mentees actually asked me this specific question because she had a conversation with a friend about putting diverse stock photos and how that was performative. So spirit is up to something here. So I think it's a beautiful question. And the first thing that I shared with her was,

It depends. There's nothing wrong with using diverse stock photos if you are not trying to position those stock photos as representative of your business. So for instance, if you or photos at all. So like, let's just say, you know, like you actually pay for a photo shoot and you ask diverse races to sit in an audience or like act as if they're your students.

And so you're trying to reflect this that like my students are diverse. I feel like that's very misleading. So I think if you have to ask that question, then it's likely probably because it's misleading. But if that is your desire and you want to create more inclusive, I'm using race as the example here because it's more of a visible identity, then you can do that. And also then name.

on your website, like name that, you know, like if you are a white woman, say, I recognize that as a white woman, I don't necessarily understand the experiences of women of color. And my desire is to create safe and brave spaces for women of all racial and ethnic backgrounds to be together, to connect, to learn from each other and to grow in sisterhood together. Like, honestly, I feel like we often underestimate the power of just

naming our intentions and naming our...

Bryana Clover (55:27.95)
our privilege? I don't, that's not what I'm trying to say, but just naming it and being able to say, yes, like I recognize that I don't know what it's like to be a woman of color, but I also know how important it is that we work together to create the world that we wish to see. And that is my desire. So when it comes to that, like that's what I would say is that name that and name that.

disadvantage that you might have. It's something that I call positionality. And in my workshops, I share in the very beginning about understanding your positionality. And so that is what groups do you belong to, whether you say you do or not, but that society has essentially imposed upon you. So whether you're a man or a woman or able -bodied or neurodivergent or white or black or Hispanic descent, like,

you know, name those positionalities and then actually get curious with the ways in which those positionalities impact the way you see the world, the way you see yourself, the way you interact with the world in your work, in your, in all of your spaces. And if more of us just kind of named that, I think that that would be helpful. And so then the final thing, the follow -up though is okay, so that's about how you are describing your intentions, but then are you living into those?

intentions. So for instance, if you have a student, a prospective student in your program, for instance, who is a black woman who has named she hasn't felt safe in your spaces, how are you leaning into that discomfort in a way that you can experience growth and connection? Are you ready to hear that? And are you ready to hear that and honor that without it impacting the way you feel?

you about your worthiness? Like, are you ready to hear that and have a conversation outside of your own identity that might cause you or others harm? And I think that that's why racial identity development is so important, because if we can be conscious of where we are at in our own racial identity development, we can then have more compassion for ourselves, have more compassion for others.

Bryana Clover (57:52.046)
and also hold responsibility and accountability to showing up in ways that are safe, in ways that honor the fullness of all human beings.

Kellynoble.coaching she/her (58:09.37)
my gosh, Mike, drop.

Bryana Clover (58:13.39)
Hahaha!

Kellynoble.coaching she/her (58:15.258)
You are so spot on though, because it is, I mean, it's not twofold. There's so many different facets. Like nothing is just black and white. Everything is so linear, but such two beautiful, tangible core principles that someone can walk away with right now is yes, it's like the embodiment and the true desire to self -reflect and get curious with self and get more curious with the world and how.

how others may be operating differently, given their privileges and allowing it to be a true value and core piece of who you are and being able to hold space. Because you're talking about that and I'm like, this is when white tears come in. You hear a black woman and then you get defensive and then you feel shame and you feel guilt. Maybe it's generational, maybe it's some...

Bryana Clover (58:42.542)
Mm -hmm.

Bryana Clover (58:55.246)
Yes.

Bryana Clover (59:02.958)
Yes!

Kellynoble.coaching she/her (59:11.898)
it's whatever conditionings happen that made you feel that way. So you immediately go into a different place, which that needs to be self explored as well. And it's like, it's like any container, if you're going to be in the wellness space. And I think this gives me another egg in the wellness space is if you're in the wellness space, you need to be able to hold space, period. And there's so many people right now in the industry that don't know how to hold space. And I think one really good way to identify if you can't hold space.

Bryana Clover (59:14.702)
I don't know.

Kellynoble.coaching she/her (59:38.17)
is if someone shares something and it makes you uncomfortable and you don't know how to respond, you don't know how to hold space because holding space is not about you responding.

Bryana Clover (59:48.622)
Yes. Can you say that again? Okay, just rewind it for those who are listening because that is so profound. That is so important. Yes.

Kellynoble.coaching she/her (59:50.458)
Hahaha!

Kellynoble.coaching she/her (59:57.338)
I've heard so many women of color being in big spaces, conferences with big women in the industry. And again, no shade to them. Like I honor what they're creating and doing, but I've had multiple women of color be like, I've stood up and I've asked questions and I've shared my story and they didn't know how to actually lead. And it's, you don't know how to hold space. Holding space is just being there to hold them and what they are.

they are feeling, not how you're feeling, how they're feeling.

Bryana Clover (01:00:27.886)
Yes.

Kellynoble.coaching she/her (01:00:29.466)
And the other piece that you said, which is so profound and it's it's so simple, maybe not easy, but simple.

Bryana Clover (01:00:38.318)
Mm -hmm.

Kellynoble.coaching she/her (01:00:40.666)
And I'm like, wow, of course. The power of just acknowledging that you understand that you have privilege and what you're speaking about and how you're coming at this angle with whatever you're teaching or facilitating or doing is so profound. And I wanna thank you selfishly because I feel like I've been in this big like transformative space, my business of how do I craft my messaging? How do I?

Why does it not feel authentic? And for me, as you know, my big catalyst to create equity is to help heart led women create more wealth because I know with wealth, that's how you really create change in a capitalistic society that we live in. Like we have to have power of money to create change. But why do I not like talking about money as often? And I think that was it. It's like,

I have to acknowledge that everything that I'm teaching right now from this lens, my point of view right now is coming from a certain level of privilege. And we can have conversations around what would best support you based on your current circumstance. But what I'm teaching is from my lens of my privilege and how I can see it moving forward. And it may not align with you, but we can figure it out why and help it align in a way that's nourishing for you.

Bryana Clover (01:02:06.734)
Absolutely, yes. And that's the thing, like what you're speaking to is true authenticity. But I really struggle understanding how one can be authentic if they don't even understand their own racial identity or their own positionality. You know, like we can't fully be ourselves. And that's why, like, just that example, I'm just imagining a story of like a Black woman standing up and speaking her truth and then.

if the leader being a white woman, not knowing what to say, and then ending up making it about herself, not because she needs to, but she's just trying to hold space. Like, I wish that we could see more moments where it's like, wow, I'm gonna need to sit with what you shared and what you said. I recognize that anything I say isn't going to do what you said justice because...

And I, to be honest, am feeling really uncomfortable because as a white woman, I don't, you know, like if one could just say that in the moment, you know, like just naming it. But so much we want to protect, so much we want to.

Bryana Clover (01:03:18.926)
protect and that manifests in avoidance, it manifests in diminishing, it manifests in denial, it manifests in awkwardness, you know? But yeah, I'm really glad you asked the question. I'm really glad that you're reflecting on that because it makes me think that.

To me, and this is what I teach in my program, is the goal is to have a positive racial identity. And a positive racial identity entails recognizing that you are more than just your race, that you are more than just your gender, whatever that is, and also that those positionalities in certain societal structures afford you privileges and disadvantages. And...

a positive racial identity, for instance, like you recognize that and you also use that to empower yourself and others and to uplift yourself and others, create space for yourself and others, whatever that is, that to me is a positive racial identity. And the other thing I want to say here too is that,

we have to not be so scared to ask those questions. Like again, I imagine my dream is like five years from now, more people ask that question you ask Kelly of, so how does one navigate the way they market their business in a way that is truly authentic? Because even that is not a question that I hear a lot, that I get a lot. It's changing, things are changing, but.

Kellynoble.coaching she/her (01:05:11.162)
I'm so happy that we came together and had this conversation. I'm so happy that we hit on so many different facets within what is happening within this space. I'm already like, my gosh, can we talk about white supremacy? Can we talk about all of these things? Can we talk about more solutions and having conversations around the solutions?

Bryana Clover (01:05:27.246)
Yeah.

Bryana Clover (01:05:33.294)
Part two.

Kellynoble.coaching she/her (01:05:40.826)
But I think this is so much, I think, for people just to really sit with already. Besides your program, which I know covers so much more of this, so anyone that's listening that's like, my gosh, I want more of this work, I wanna be better, I wanna do better, I want to really get in touch with who I truly am so I can show up for others in a way that is inclusive.

Bryana Clover (01:05:47.694)
Yeah.

Kellynoble.coaching she/her (01:06:07.674)
what is like an easy accessible resource? Maybe it's a book, maybe it's a podcast, like what's one next step that they can kind of take to really start diving more into this work? And then I want you to talk about your program, if they're ready for that, how they can jump into that opportunity.

Bryana Clover (01:06:21.358)
Yeah.

Bryana Clover (01:06:25.71)
That's such a good question. What's the one resource? Let me think about this for a minute because there's so many

So I honestly, I do a lot of my teaching from Oslem, Sensoy and Robin D. Angelo's book, Is Everyone Really Equal? So that would be a book that I would recommend because it gets into, it's more about the societal structure in the West. So Canada and the United States, so it's very specific to that, but it includes so much terminology and has such important topics with regards not just to race, but to...

class to to all identities. So that would be a book I highly recommend. A general recommendation too is to diversify the sources of information no matter what that is. It's like just paying attention to who's writing the books, paying attention to...

whose lived experience you are listening to. So that's not a specific source, but I like to say that diversify your source and also don't fall into the trap of, you know, one Black woman speaks for all Black women, one Asian American woman speaks for all Asian American women. And so that's why I think it's important for you to, one, to diversify their sources.

But I do have my recent webinar, and I'm trying to think if there's a way that I could share this, but I have like three pages of some of my favorite resources and links to them. So I'm not sure if maybe we can give your listeners access to that of a place to start. But yeah.

Kellynoble.coaching she/her (01:08:19.77)
Yeah. If you have a link, I can put it in the show notes. I would love for everyone to have access to that. I love, I think what you said is so important is, is even though there are systemic things and there are a lot of

Bryana Clover (01:08:26.606)
Yeah.

Kellynoble.coaching she/her (01:08:37.242)
generalizations aren't necessarily the right word, but yes, because of systemic things, there are large classes of people that are experiencing something similar, and we also have to remember that is also in itself a stereotype. Not every black person, woman, able -bodied person, whatever, is going to be exactly aligned with whatever's happening. Like we have to also,

Bryana Clover (01:09:01.582)
Yeah.

Kellynoble.coaching she/her (01:09:07.578)
look at from the macro and also the micro of the individual person's experience and the individual person's view of the world. I think that is such an important thing to say and acknowledge, especially if you are someone in a space that wants to be in this work. Because I have seen that before in the past where it's, you know, I want more black women on my team, but...

Bryana Clover (01:09:14.67)
Yes.

Kellynoble.coaching she/her (01:09:34.106)
Every time they're on my team, they only get to a next level and they leave and like, I don't know what to say or do. And it's, well, how, how often have you actually had a conversation with what their specific needs are? Cause they're still people. Everyone has specific needs and desires and so I'm so happy you said that. I also want to say this one thing as you're speaking, because I know there is even like for us, it's like, how do we have this conversation? It's taboo. What do we do?

Bryana Clover (01:09:49.23)
Yes.

Kellynoble.coaching she/her (01:10:01.882)
I really want to give everyone also the permission and the okay that during this process of learning and deconditioning and being more within this work is it's going to be messy and it's meant to be messy.

Bryana Clover (01:10:16.014)
Yes, so glad you said that.

Kellynoble.coaching she/her (01:10:18.522)
We learn through the mess and yeah, you may offend someone. You may rub someone the wrong way. You may come off the wrong way. But like anything else, the more reps you put in, the more conscious you are about it, the more that you will continue to grow and evolve, the easier and better it's going to get. And through those way, through the times that feel messy, that's your best opportunity to sit and learn.

Bryana Clover (01:10:21.102)
Yeah.

Bryana Clover (01:10:45.486)
Yeah, thank you for saying that. So important.

Kellynoble.coaching she/her (01:10:48.73)
Yeah, so for everyone that wants to work with you in liberatory embodiment, how can they do that? Spill all the tea.

Bryana Clover (01:10:53.454)
Yeah. Okay, thank you. And I know I feel like I've referenced it a couple times. I'm not trying to make this a sales pitch, but I'm just so like passionate about it. And I just wrapped up a webinar as the launch. So, Libertory Embodiment, it is a 15 week program. It's on demand, but it also includes live time with me. And doors for enrollment are open until May 14th at 1159.

PM Eastern. But if I have just one minute, I'd love to share a little bit about the program. OK, and so first I want to say that this I want to describe what I think is disembodiment before I talk about embodiment. And I was really inspired by Lauren Elizabeth. She talks about it in the sense of I can't remember, but it's essentially.

Kellynoble.coaching she/her (01:11:31.13)
Yeah.

Bryana Clover (01:11:51.31)
manifesting like one's greatest desires. Like that's the context that she teaches it in. But she says, you know, she says, okay, first we have a desire and we feel that that desire either clearly or unclearly. So in the sense of racial equity, it's like, I want to be a better anti -racist, but I don't even know what that looks like. Or I want to be a better racial justice advocate, but I don't even know what that looks like. So then we make a decision that we're going to go after that desire, which is equity, for instance. So one might buy all the books.

They join all the book studies. They go to all these video discussions. But they do that without being fully integrated in its essence or knowing or the knowing or the frequency of it. And so they keep thinking, well, if I just keep doing these things, surely I'll become a better racial justice advocate. And then that causes them to show up in an unembodied frequency to create that outcome. But they never actually created it because they never were fully embodied.

And so they might even think, well, why did I say that in front of everybody? I'm so embarrassed. Or I was so scared. I'm like, I'm so scared to cancel culture and, you know, or now Karen isn't my friend anymore or whatever that is. And we obsess how far away we are from achieving equity or being a authentic advocate. Why it's so hard for us to achieve it. Why nothing we do is good enough. How we're a failure. So one might feel like I'm so mortified. So.

I'm not gonna show up anymore. And then we start giving ourselves excuses to why we don't show up. And then nothing happens in the 3D, right? And that's likely because we are showing up in a disembodied frequency to this work. And so that is what liberatory embodiment is. It's what I call a spiritual practice to activate and to call in one's vision of justice and equity into the world.

creating a clear vision of embodied identity of that desire and all of its parts, helping us really get incredibly detailed about our own personal identity, the game plan, what it is we want to birth into the justice space, and all of the emotions and pieces and parts that come with that. So it's really helping one create or think about what they're creating and what a genuine advocate is actually creating into the world.

Bryana Clover (01:14:15.95)
And so there's four attributes of an embodied anti or an embodied racial justice advocate one an embodied justice advocate has an established foundation of truth An embodied racial justice advocate is rooted in historical context with a critical thinking lens There they have a nurtured self or a nurtured authentic self understanding and finally, they're grounded in conscious action

So that's what the program is all about is helping one embody those attributes. It's honestly really more focused on personal identity, racial identity, healing. And it's my creation out of experiencing so many DEI efforts that don't work, that are not sustainable. So.

Yeah, that's not, I know, I don't know how to say it in this distinct way. I'm gonna practice that, but that's really what it's about. And yeah, doors are open until May 14th.

Kellynoble.coaching she/her (01:15:18.49)
thank you so much for sharing and I, as you were explaining it, I'm like, this doesn't sound like any other D I think that I've ever heard and the potency and the power that's going to come from this program specifically is because it roots you into yourself and your power. Because once you have that, anything is possible. So I love that.

Bryana Clover (01:15:38.286)
Yes.

Bryana Clover (01:15:43.63)
Yes.

Kellynoble.coaching she/her (01:15:44.41)
the core of what you've created. It's going to be so good. So I'll have a link for that sign up and the show notes. Bri, how can they get a hold of you is Instagram with your social handles.

Bryana Clover (01:15:56.462)
Yeah, Instagram. So it's at Brianna Clover. So B -R -Y -A -N -A Clover, just like the four leaf clover.

Kellynoble.coaching she/her (01:16:04.09)
Beautiful. So go check out Brianna, go slide in her DMs, let her know it resonated. Thank you so much, Bri, for taking the time. This was amazing. For everybody else, I'll see you next Thursday. I love you all. Have the most beautiful day. Bye.

Bryana Clover (01:16:11.534)
Thank you, Kelly.